Thursday, August 31
Thoughts from the Scum of the Earth...
Some thoughts from a site called "Out of Ur"This is from Mike Sares, pastor of Scum of the Earth Church in Denver...
"Every generation is quick to point out the hypocrisy of the one that preceded it. The generation born just after WWII began rejecting the values of their parents during the '60s. Now it's their kids’ turn.
Today’s young adults see a generation of baby-boomer Christians that has striven for "excellence" in every part of church life. Boomers proclaimed in the 1980s that image is everything, and their churches have reflected that cultural trend.
As a result, according to Dieter Zander, the next generation has concluded that "everything is image," and therefore nothing can be trusted. Church is too slick, too good, too polished to be real. And the twenty-something hunger for raw authenticity just doesn’t fit in.
It’s been my experience that twenty-somethings simply want permission to struggle. Most fear that they are not good enough for God's family. Each week they are told about the standards they are expected to keep, and each week they are led to believe that the rest of the church is somehow keeping up. This "silence about the struggle" quietly drives young adults away from churches all over the country. One of the highest compliments the pastor of an emerging church can receive is to be told that his/her own difficulty in following Christ has given someone hope that they, too, can fail and still keep following Jesus."
My questions...
...are these thoughts accurate?
...are these thoughts applicable to only twenty-somethings? Mostly twenty-somethings?
Mark Nelson at 4:31 PM 12comments
12 Comments
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at 5:02 PM
said... Yes. Yes. And possibly.
But because I got tired of the 'emergers' a few years ago and their talk about 'real faith, real life, real everything', I'm very hesitant to say out loud that any generational discussion is worth too much fuss. I see no reflection of our tendencies in ministry today (focusing on this or that) in the way Jesus did his ministry. The only reference to something like it happened when Jesus (and I believe he stared coldly and eerily into every adult's eyes when he said this) had the children come to him and he warned everyone not to lead them astray.
Other than that, young or old, Jesus was an everyman for every generation.
Then again, maybe he wasn't. Who am I to say so?-
at 5:02 PM
said...
Yes. Yes. And possibly.
But because I got tired of the 'emergers' a few years ago and their talk about 'real faith, real life, real everything', I'm very hesitant to say out loud that any generational discussion is worth too much fuss. I see no reflection of our tendencies in ministry today (focusing on this or that) in the way Jesus did his ministry. The only reference to something like it happened when Jesus (and I believe he stared coldly and eerily into every adult's eyes when he said this) had the children come to him and he warned everyone not to lead them astray.
Other than that, young or old, Jesus was an everyman for every generation.
Then again, maybe he wasn't. Who am I to say so?-
at 1:48 AM
said...
I think the reason many 20-somethings stay away is because they are selfish. For the first time they are away from Mom and Dad and want to go off and do their own thing.
I believe that people believe that image is everything, no matter what the age. Just look at all the plastic surgery and TV and People magazine.
Being a grown up is not any specific age. It is when you realize that you have no one to impress but yourself and God. No one else really matters.
-Shelley-
at 6:59 AM
cory said... yeah, that's pretty accurate for me alright. thanks Mark, for the quote.
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at 9:22 AM
said...
I think it's accurate, though I'm not sure it has as much to do with age as value system. Decade of 20s is a natural time, while making a first stab at independence work/social/spiritual/financial, to consider whether those tools we brought with us from our upbringing will be useful or must replaced. And that often results in a decided move away from the status quo, that is, the parental church paradigm. Still, I don't see that loooking for permission to struggle is owned by that age group. I see that desire played out at all ages. But over time, as the layers of dust and habit settle, those emotions are a little harder to uncover from older seekers (which we are all, after all, at best). I am reminded whenever I visit the gospels that Jesus was, sometimes moreso than a source of great answers, was a purveyor of life-altering questions. The more we enable people to feel at home in their curiosity, I think, the better. That is an essential part of the Jesus way. His way, as He said, is easy. And is it not far easier to ask questions and name our vulnerability than to put up the hopeless front of pretending we have the answers?
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at 3:18 PM
Cameron said...
Yes, yes, and no. I believe it really involves the Gen X group. I know that our church is filled with 20's and 30's that believe this trend and it also has individuals of all ages that believe this from 50 yr. olds to 60 yr olds. It is predominantly the Gen X group that is striving for "authenticity and real community".
Cameron-
at 12:29 AM
Clinton said...
I like this quote. I like his willingness to look at popular culture and the church and then offer a commentary. For the most part I see the thoughts as accurate, though I would articulate them differently the larger principle of generational cultures shaping not only our values and the church are very real and a good place for our (20 somethings) generation to look for beginning to understand a purer form of church. The reason I say "purer" is that each generation has its own set of norms and values, as we all know its culture, that effect the church in both positive and negative ways. When we, both 20 somethings and baby boomers, look at each other's generation hypocrisy we can begin a beautiful conversation that brings more freedom and lead us to an understanding of "church" and life that is more abundant than where we currently are.
The Messiah came that we may have life more abundantly and when a trend like generations pointing out one another's hypocrisy comes to the surface. It is something, I think, we can be thankful for and humbly start a dialog that could lead us all to a more abundant life -a more purer understanding of how to live life within the Kingdom.
Our grandparents built the church, our parents out sourced and polished everything, and we hunger for authenticity...our kids will point our mistakes out but at least we're not alone and pigeon-holed in one generation's understanding of life and church. Together we'll get to that place of abundance.-
at 1:05 AM
Clinton said...
Jeph,
I like what you had to say. I wonder though, if Jesus, when he spoke to people about children, was more giving a lesson on the outcast of society. Children were the ones most looked upon, in that society at that time, as the least valuable. So maybe when Jesus was talking about the children he was giving a lesson about how the church or those who follow him are to treat those most looked down upon in society...what do you think?-
at 11:10 AM
said...
I've heard that before, but I tend to take it more literal than that. Jesus used several opportunities to say specifically the stuff you just mentioned. I feel like this was His way of saying, "raise them to know my Father." It's in the old testament as well. Children can be raised to do anything we want them to...that's a temptation that many yield to when they raise them to be everything except what Christ intended for them. It's kind of an "all man was made to be" sort of thing. The younger, the easier to lead astray. Which, I guess, also applies to the clay we know as 'young adults' and how they desperately know they need to be made into something useful, but there's not many willing to mold them as such.
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at 1:17 PM
Clinton said...
Jeph,
You have a strong heart for truth and understand the great responsibility that comes with those entrusted to lead. Be it parents or teachers, I gather you grasp the seriousness of influence and it appears you have a burden for people to use influence in a positive way.
You and I both value "young adults" and see them as having much to offer. I believe most young adults are already "something useful." I see their perspective and example as worthy to be heard. God is behind history weaving its story line together and directing the path it travels. This leads me to believe each generation has the movement of our Heavenly Father behind the general direction it takes its paradigms.
It is good to know there are people who carry burdens for influencing people in the Way. How great it is when we use our influence to empower people and encourage them in the ways that lead to life.-
at 7:16 AM
Mark Nelson said...
Wow...these comments are great...
True abundance, (the 'more and better' the Message version says in Joh 10:10)...may God grant it to us all, and may we open that gift with the veracity of a 6 year old on Christmas morning...-
at 3:21 PM
said...
First a side note: That is a church I've been wanting to visit!! I heard about it a couple weeks ago.
Second, the answer to your questions: Yes, I completely agree.
I feel like there is pressure to be a certain way (like the perfect youth minister or the perfect praise leader). Growing up in my Presby church, and seeing mainly "gray hairs" there now, there is the pressure to conform to the old-school way of doing things. Old school church, old school singing, old school traditions...old school traditional way of finding a career, marrying, having kids, and the list goes on.
There are a lot of places out there that don't have that feeling, but just as many that do. "If you rebel against the church you're a sinner." Even if the church loves who you are in spite OF who you are that's still the message of "you're not quite cutting it.
So what's the easiest thing to do when hearing people say that, say they accept but you can see they really don't (or the mold you think you're supposed to fit you really don't) ... is to just not go.
I've seen churches with really good community. People being real. I think that's what it boils down to for me....be REAL.
Don't fill my head with nonsense about some way-too-perfect way of living, but address the facts of real human desire, the struggle with not necessarily starting a career right out of high school/college, and be real, open and understanding.
I've come to realize that it's okay that it took me 6.5 years to graduate college and 3.5 on top of that to get into a job I like. Had you said it'd be that kind of road back in '96 when I graduated high school I think I would have flipped. But now I realize it's an accepted way of life and that's just how it is for some people.
"Seize the day and make your life extraordinary" means not necessarily following the same mundane path (what i think is mundane) of my parents.
Being real also says it's okay to make mistakes. Pick up, dust off, and move on.
-Carol S.
carnders@yahoo.com